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Message: [QUOTE="Wolfie, post: 3462678, member: 8770"] Argentina were a pretty good side. Its not like he was playing with one of the weaker sides in the tournament. Its not like he carried them on his back like Maradona did in 1986. They had plenty of quality players. I'm certainly not criticising his achievements with Barcelona, he was a vital player in a very good side, but you cant deny he's only done it at dominant sides. Like it or not, thats a fact. He was a part of one of the best club sides i think i have ever seen. Then he moved to PSG, another side with huge resources who have quality all over the park. Again, using Maradona, its not like he is testing his ability at a lower level side like when he went to Napoli and was the driving force behind them climing up the league and winning the title. Being fair to Messi and Ronaldo in that respect, i dont think you are getting the best players in the world dropping down to a side in any top league who just avoided relegation these days and then winning titles with them. Stats and titles dont prove you are a great player unless your team is clearly a one man team. Thats obviously not the case with teams with players like Xavi, Puyol, Ineista, Pique, Fabregas, Villa, Alaves, Sanchez etc. You judge a player on ability and influence and having watched them regularly. Also, if you are using stats how do you compare him to say Ferenc Puskas from the 1950's, or even Pele for that matter when the data just wasnt collected like it is in the modern game. Pele depending on what information you believe scored between about 775 goals to over 1250. We dont have reliable stats to give a fair comparison, hence why i say you can probably only call a player the best of his generation. Just because in your opinion ( and you are clearly a Messi fanboy ) he is the GOAT, it doesnt mean he is. Its all subjective. If you want to say statistically he is the best because he has been a part of sides that win trophies, thats what you should say. I'd have him in my top 5 of who i have seen, but in reality i think who i pick today would be different next week. [/QUOTE]

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