Reserve Grade

heartly87

heartly87

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The way I see it is 20s should not exist in the fashion it does. For the life of me i can not understand why the nrl does not have a 2nd grade. I know there is a cost factor that hurts clubs with transporting teams but 20s is the same. The issue I have 20s does not prepare anyone for NRL, it identifies talent but thats all. What should be happening is 20s guys move up into 2nd grade and continue their development playing adults without the pressure of being NRL level. In my opinion sending your recruits around the qrl for example does nothing. Their not playing a Broncos game plan and mot forming the combinations with fellow recruits. If a Bronco gets dropped they go play Qcup. With a team they don't know and are expected to just be the hero. It is complete crap. If you had a pool of players that can be dropped or promoted within one club you instantly get more cohesion. Also you may never actually lose a player like Taylor as he could be playing 2nd grade just waiting for Hunt to **** up, Hunt may be playing way better knowing Talor is there waiting for him to **** up. The same goes for any player. Think of the quality you could be producing.
 
heartly87 said:
The way I see it is 20s should not exist in the fashion it does. For the life of me i can not understand why the nrl does not have a 2nd grade. I know there is a cost factor that hurts clubs with transporting teams but 20s is the same. The issue I have 20s does not prepare anyone for NRL, it identifies talent but thats all. What should be happening is 20s guys move up into 2nd grade and continue their development playing adults without the pressure of being NRL level. In my opinion sending your recruits around the qrl for example does nothing. Their not playing a Broncos game plan and mot forming the combinations with fellow recruits. If a Bronco gets dropped they go play Qcup. With a team they don't know and are expected to just be the hero. It is complete crap. If you had a pool of players that can be dropped or promoted within one club you instantly get more cohesion. Also you may never actually lose a player like Taylor as he could be playing 2nd grade just waiting for Hunt to **** up, Hunt may be playing way better knowing Talor is there waiting for him to **** up. The same goes for any player. Think of the quality you could be producing.
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the NRL have already made the decision to scrap the 20s ... I actually think this is the last year of the comp
 
There is no excuse for there to be no reserve grade. Thats what i am saying. This partly the reasob we have all these inflated contracts. When we could sign a rookie on what their worth not on what their potential is. Right now teams are buying rookies like pongo for overs when they should not be. Hunt is another example. We would never be in tjis position if we had a person sitting in second grade with a few Nrl games up their sleeve who knows our game plans like the back of his hand. Taylor could of already been pishing for that spot and no body would complain if we slotted Ben back a year early for one of our own. As Ben would still be playing for Broncos 2nds not wynum or norths
 
heartly87 said:
The way I see it is 20s should not exist in the fashion it does. For the life of me i can not understand why the nrl does not have a 2nd grade. I know there is a cost factor that hurts clubs with transporting teams but 20s is the same. The issue I have 20s does not prepare anyone for NRL, it identifies talent but thats all. What should be happening is 20s guys move up into 2nd grade and continue their development playing adults without the pressure of being NRL level. In my opinion sending your recruits around the qrl for example does nothing. Their not playing a Broncos game plan and mot forming the combinations with fellow recruits. If a Bronco gets dropped they go play Qcup. With a team they don't know and are expected to just be the hero. It is complete crap. If you had a pool of players that can be dropped or promoted within one club you instantly get more cohesion. Also you may never actually lose a player like Taylor as he could be playing 2nd grade just waiting for Hunt to **** up, Hunt may be playing way better knowing Talor is there waiting for him to **** up. The same goes for any player. Think of the quality you could be producing.
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Agree with this 100%.

Considering the climate the U20's concept was conceived in, I suspect the original concept was brought in so that younger players, 18-up (sometimes younger) would be less likely to leave the code because they could get in to an NRL-branded jersey earlier. Playing before the big boys, potentially getting on TV, it was just like the real thing. Unfortunately that's been the problem - it's not. It's not even close.

Reserve grade is the way to go. If young players aren't ready to put their talents on the line against grown men then there is no reason to believe they'll be successful in the NRL. They should either make it so that players can't sign with an NRL club until they're 18 (to stop the "carpet bomb" recruiting), or, even better IMO, each NRL team gets an allowance of, say 10 players 16yo+ that still have to play in the age-group state leagues but can train with the 1st or 2nd grade squad once or twice a week. That'll keep the young players interested, help develop them, but stop clubs from hoarding.
 
I don't see it as a big issue, the Queensland Cup has proven itself to be a wonderful feeder system and clubs like Melbourne, North Queensland and Manly (when they were involved) benefited tremendously from it. A national reserve grade competition would just be a huge expense for the NRL which would hardly generate any revenue (will more people buy tickets to watch the reserve grade? will the media companies promote it?) and wouldn't guarantee a better quality product.

It's worth remembering that rookies were being offered huge contracts before the Under 20s ever commenced. The next Sonny-Bill Williams signed a marquee contract with Cronulla despite never playing any first grade and played all of one game on the bench. Penrith thought they had the next GI when they signed Greg Waddell to a marquee contract, but a series of debilitating knee injuries cut his career short. Then the Wests Tigers rolled the dice on this young half from the Gold Coast with a wicked side-step. Benji Marshall was a huge gamble for the club and it paid off with one of the more unpredictable premiership victories of all-time. The only difference now is that clubs have three times the money to throw around (or at least they think they do) than they did back then. As Super League showed, if you give the clubs the money, they're prepared to make some ridiculous offers to entice and retain rookies.
 
My preference would be for the 20's to stay but that's only because I enjoy rocking up to a game early and having some footy to watch.

But scrapping the u20's and these young kids going through ISC and NSW cup is suitable. We don't need a reserve grade comp to replace the u20's while that would be nice because I do have fond memories of watching the Cults before a Broncos game in the 90's.
 
It's such a flawed argument that production of great players would increase if their was a reserve grade. The only thing that would increase would be cost to the clubs.

How have Storm gone using the ISC?

Looking at the teams for this week- Napa, Eastwood, Gubb, Munster, Chambers, Jacks, Glasby, Smith, Kafusi, Bromwich, Welsh, Tonumaipea, Boyd, Oates, Moga, Kahu, Hunt, Sims, McCullough, Blair, Thaiday, Gillett, McGuire, Glenn, TPJ, Ese'ese, Fai, Coote, Feldt, O'Neill, Linnett, Winterstien, Morgan, Scott, Granville, Bolton, Cooper, Lowe, Taumalolo, Hampton, Hess, Kaufusi, Bowen, Gagai, Don, Zillman, Taylor, McQueen, Lawton, PettyBourne, Pulu, DCE, Cullen, Tryrell, Hunt, Rapana, Papalli, Bateman, Lui, Santo, Beale, Tagataese, Williams, Capewell, Hunt, Rankin, Sims, Mann and Hoffman.

I count 69 players that have played ISC. Only team that doesn't have one is Panthers.

How is the ISC not doing its job?
 
Morkel said:
Agree with this 100%.

Considering the climate the U20's concept was conceived in, I suspect the original concept was brought in so that younger players, 18-up (sometimes younger) would be less likely to leave the code because they could get in to an NRL-branded jersey earlier. Playing before the big boys, potentially getting on TV, it was just like the real thing. Unfortunately that's been the problem - it's not. It's not even close.

Reserve grade is the way to go. If young players aren't ready to put their talents on the line against grown men then there is no reason to believe they'll be successful in the NRL. They should either make it so that players can't sign with an NRL club until they're 18 (to stop the "carpet bomb" recruiting), or, even better IMO, each NRL team gets an allowance of, say 10 players 16yo+ that still have to play in the age-group state leagues but can train with the 1st or 2nd grade squad once or twice a week. That'll keep the young players interested, help develop them, but stop clubs from hoarding.
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That was certainly apart of it.

Originally what inspired the discussion was the concerns about player welfare and how there should be an age restriction in the NRL. I believe Gus was a big proponent of it, and the idea was that you'd have the best junior talent face one another and once they grew into their bodies, they'd be able to handle the rigors of first grade training and the weekly grind of the NRL.

The NRL took that idea, but missed the point entirely and created an expense that none of the clubs were happy about. The NYC has been costing clubs millions and at the end of the day it hasn't produced anymore stars than the old system did. The only benefit was that clubs like the Warriors and North Queensland had some development pathways to retain some of the talent that either had to leave to get noticed or would simply play the other code. I believe the likes of Hurrell, Tuivasa-Sheck and Asofa-Solomona were all swayed by the existence of a 20s competition.

Personally I thought the 20s was a good idea, that was let down by pure neglect. It was obvious early on they needed to tinker with it, make it an Under 21s, try to improve the coverage etc. but the NRL just let it fester and really nobody is going to remember the competition in five year's time.
 
Super Freak said:
My preference would be for the 20's to stay but that's only because I enjoy rocking up to a game early and having some footy to watch.

But scrapping the u20's and these young kids going through ISC and NSW cup is suitable. We don't need a reserve grade comp to replace the u20's while that would be nice because I do have fond memories of watching the Cults before a Broncos game in the 90's.
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The Cults played out of compound and had cool-aid at half time.
 
I just want to be able to watch a decent game of football before the main game. A reserve grade Broncos team would be my preference but I don't mind if it's one of the better ISC games for that round. Give me something rather than charge me the same for less.
 
Sirlee oldman said:
I just want to be able to watch a decent game of football before the main game. A reserve grade Broncos team would be my preference but I don't mind if it's one of the better ISC games for that round. Give me something rather than charge me the same for less.
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Why is a ISC going to give up money they need from gate etc to play before a Broncos' game in front of 500 people that don't care.
 
Why wouldn't
1910 said:
Why is a ISC going to give up money they need from gate etc to play before a Broncos' game in front of 500 people that don't care.
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Why wouldn't the Broncos compensate them for putting on entertainment while the club is charging people ridiculous prices for food and drink? There is a lot more than 500 people who get to the game early as well.
 
The Broncos aren't setting the prices on food and beverage, that's the O'Brien Group which is why it's consistent across Rugby Union and Football.

The only prices they can control is membership packages, and they've still got to be mindful of Stadium Queensland.
 
Why would a reserve grade cost any more than the 20's? The players that would make up our reserve grade are already contracted to the club, were awarded pre-season gigs, or already play for feeder clubs.
 
Sirlee oldman said:
Why wouldn't

Why wouldn't the Broncos compensate them for putting on entertainment while the club is charging people ridiculous prices for food and drink? There is a lot more than 500 people who get to the game early as well.
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When Toowoomba played before the Broncos, you could fire a gun and not hit anyone.

Broncos don't make anything off food and drink, they just need people through the gate. Are Blackhawks going to move a game to Lang Park and make that money back?
 
Morkel said:
Why would a reserve grade cost any more than the 20's? The players that would make up our reserve grade are already contracted to the club, were awarded pre-season gigs, or already play for feeder clubs.
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It wouldn't cost anymore, the problem is that the Under 20s was already an unnecessary expense.
 
Morkel said:
Why would a reserve grade cost any more than the 20's? The players that would make up our reserve grade are already contracted to the club, were awarded pre-season gigs, or already play for feeder clubs.
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You're expecting guys that aren't full time to now be full time- you can't still pay them nothing to play for Redcliffe.
 
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