- Apr 26, 2008
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All that will do is ensure refs don't put any players on report except for the most extreme tackles.
HIA stats
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mrslong
International Rep
- Mar 25, 2008
- 13,333
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Exactly, blind freddy could see what was happening. He grabbed his ankle, then his head. Free interchange, thanks for coming. I hate it.
I also understand the need for incentive for the players to come off if they have a head knock, but I wish more players would be like Josh McGuire who you have to fight to get off the field.
- Mar 5, 2008
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Just put a clause in the contract to make the NRL and clubs not responsible. Tell them the risks every weekend before the match, if they want to play on because they're beef head footballers with a concussion, you tell your kids at their 30th birthday why you're such a dumbshit and can't remember their name.
- Jan 25, 2013
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I don't know why this wasn't written in to every contract ever. Well I'm sure it is, in a "you know the risk in playing, your choice" kind of disclaimer, but thanks to the fucking lawyers they play the "the players were never fully informed of the risks, now give them money" card.
- Jul 28, 2016
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I think it would be highly risky for the NRL to place constraints on when a player should or shouldn't be taken from the field. If a doctor thinks they should be taken off then they should have the right to.
For me the simplest approach would be if you go off for a HIA and pass you must come back on for the person who subbed on for you and you must take the field as soon as you have been cleared fit to return ie 15mins.
If they are fit to play but don't come back after 15 you cop the interchange for taking them off in the first place... if you choose to bring them back after 15 but for a different player you cop an interchange (as the HIA was cleared but the player returned at the next convenience). Finally if the player returns sometime after 15 but for a different player than you cop 2 interchanges (one to get them off initially and a second to get the alternative guy off).
This way a standard HIA is free, but an attempt to rort will see you penalised an interchange.
Yes it could be exploited but you gain very little advantage by taking your player off to give another guy a 15 min stint. You also run the risk that a 2nd HIA rules them out for the game, which is current rules.
For me the simplest approach would be if you go off for a HIA and pass you must come back on for the person who subbed on for you and you must take the field as soon as you have been cleared fit to return ie 15mins.
If they are fit to play but don't come back after 15 you cop the interchange for taking them off in the first place... if you choose to bring them back after 15 but for a different player you cop an interchange (as the HIA was cleared but the player returned at the next convenience). Finally if the player returns sometime after 15 but for a different player than you cop 2 interchanges (one to get them off initially and a second to get the alternative guy off).
This way a standard HIA is free, but an attempt to rort will see you penalised an interchange.
Yes it could be exploited but you gain very little advantage by taking your player off to give another guy a 15 min stint. You also run the risk that a 2nd HIA rules them out for the game, which is current rules.
CaptainHook
NRL Player
- Jun 17, 2013
- 2,990
- 1,303
Yeah true and we just keep going around in circles. They can introduce as many rule tweaks and changes as they like but they'll always be weak willed refs.
- Apr 26, 2008
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I don't see why it takes 15 minutes. Cap it to 5 minutes, they haven't ever disclosed exactly what the test is but I feel 15 minutes is stretching it to make full use of the free interchange.
- Mar 4, 2008
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I've said it before and i'll say it again ...
if the NRL are serious they will insure there is an INDEPENDENT doctor at every match to monitor the HIA and when a player needs to come from the field for that purpose...
as long as it is in the hands of doctors paid by the club, then the rules are ripe for exploitation
if the NRL are serious they will insure there is an INDEPENDENT doctor at every match to monitor the HIA and when a player needs to come from the field for that purpose...
as long as it is in the hands of doctors paid by the club, then the rules are ripe for exploitation
tommy
International Rep
- Jun 5, 2015
- 13,129
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Have club doctors and independant doctors. If the club doctor says you have to come off then that's it, you're done for the game. If the club doctor says you're fine but the independant doctor takes you off and you fail the HIA, club doctors get sacked and club gets a massive fine.
You can only go back on if the independant doctor pulls you off and you pass a HIA.
Or you could do it so that if the club doctor takes you off they then have 5 minutes to decide if you sit out the game or go back on for the same player that replaced you. I'm no doctor but 5 minutes should be long enough to tell if someone is seeing stars or not, and if the independant dr. decides you're bullshitting it's a sacking and a fine.
You can only go back on if the independant doctor pulls you off and you pass a HIA.
Or you could do it so that if the club doctor takes you off they then have 5 minutes to decide if you sit out the game or go back on for the same player that replaced you. I'm no doctor but 5 minutes should be long enough to tell if someone is seeing stars or not, and if the independant dr. decides you're bullshitting it's a sacking and a fine.
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- Jan 25, 2013
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I'm not sure that would be the best policy, but I like the idea of having just one independent doctor on-site to work in tandem with the club doctors. The club doctors can take off whatever player they want, but the independent doctor is the only one who can give players permission to return, and they need to be strict as **** in allowing them to return. That way players will be loathe to "play up" their symptoms, or they'll be at risk of not being allowed to return to the field. And those teams that routinely take one or two players off every game, only for them to return, will be scrutinised by the independent doctors as they'll be reviewing every HIA and will quickly determine which ones are bullshit or not.
- Jan 25, 2014
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- Sep 8, 2009
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A SYDNEY doctor has invented a revolutionary device to test concussed players in what could be a game-changing discovery for rugby league.
And he wants it introduced into the NRL late next year to combat selfish coaches attempting to overrule nervous club doctors by sending concussed players back into the game.
Dr Adrian Cohen — through the Headsafe concussion research program — will lobby the NRL and clubs to acquire The Concussionometer, an advanced invention which takes just two minutes to determine whether a concussed player should re-enter the playing field.
And club doctors — under pressure from win-at-all costs coaches — who ignore the reading by sending players back onto the field could be held liable.
Data extracted from The Concussionometer would be sent directly to a smart phone for doctors to examine. That would allow club medical staff to make a swift ruling on whether the player should return to play.
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Dr Adrian Cohen with former NFL Footballer Colin Scotts and the concussion device that he has designed. Picture. Phil Hillyard
Cohen, a concussion researcher at Sydney, Macquarie and NSW Universities, wants to personally meet NRL chief medical officer Paul Bloomfield early in the New Year with the devise available to clubs after next season.
The Concussionometer, invented by Cohen, wraps around a player’s head and looks similar to ski goggles. It has been ten years in the making.
“In two minutes, it can tell when a player is concussed and has to leave the field and when they are safe to return, as opposed to 20 minutes for the current SCAT (Sport Concussion Assessment Test) test,” Cohen said.
“Concussion is such an important disease, you just can’t afford to get the diagnosis wrong, there’s too much at stake. The Concussionometer takes the guess work out of concussion and will become the next gold standard for concussion diagnosis.
“Everyone knows the SCAT tool is open to abuse and is quite subjective. That is why nobody trusts it. This isn’t about the game getting soft — ‘it was tougher’ in my day’ — the guys saying that can’t remember where they left their car keys.
Dr Adrian Cohen with former NFL Footballer Colin Scotts and the concussion device that he has designed. Picture. Phil Hillyard
“This is critical at the elite sports level — and also for schools and community sports — so that players, medical staff coaches and parents know when a player can safely return to playing.”
The devise is designed to take the “uncertainty and controversy” from concussion diagnosis.
Amazingly, this technology costs just $250 to buy with an additional $20 per player, per year.
“This is a game-changer,” said concussion ambassador and former Australian-born NFL star, Colin Scotts. “The first truly objective, accurate device to assess concussion and, just like me, it’s an Aussie first.”
Cohen has been studying the effects of concussion for the past 30 years.
He is more than aware of the pressure NRL coaches place on club doctors when a key player is concussed and taken from the field for an HIA (head injury assessment) test.
“What the doctors will do in the sheds is to look at the player and try and remember what they were like before,” Cohen said. “Ultimately in rugby league, it’s up to the doctor. You also have the coach in the doctor’s ear saying ‘I don’t care what you find, we need the player back on the field’. Doctors are under pressure.
“What we are doing is giving doctors an objective way of deciding whether the player is okay. To do that, we have to have an idea how the brain normally works and then, after an impact, test them with the Concussionometer.
Billy Slater leaves the field after being knocked out during against the Raiders.
“If there is then objective evidence that a player shouldn’t go back out … a coach may not like it but the doctors will have something in front of them that can be dragged up in court.
“The coach will say he’s our best player and playmaker but I say to coaches that if he’s concussed and can’t think straight, kick straight, pass straight or read the play, is he your best player anymore? The answer is obviously no.
“Just because you play at the elite level, it doesn’t make you able to recover any quicker. Doctors are fallible and human and they are under all sorts of pressure from fans and coaches. They want to get it right because ultimately their duty is to the player but they get caught-up in the excitement and the push to get players back on the field as quickly as possible.”
Cohen explained to The Daily Telegraph how his devise operates.
“The devise itself looks like a pair of ski goggles that goes on the front of the face and half a pair ski goggles that goes on the back,” Cohen said. “The front visor part isn’t a virtual reality screen, you’re not watching space ships or shooting things down, it’s flashing lights in your eyes.
“When it does that it stimulates all the visual nerves in your brain and those messages are received at the back of your head, the occipital region. And that’s where we place the back-half of the devise that have the senses to pick-up the electrical activity.
Doctor Jenny Coleman checks a replay to checks on a Knights player condition after receiving a head knock. Picture: Gregg Porteous
“The results go to a smart phone which the doctor can look at. It will be definitive, objective evidence. But if the player says he’s fine and the Concussionometer is exactly the same as it was pre-season, I’m quite happy to send the player back out. The Concussionometer is objective, reliable and accurate.”
Cohen wants his invention introduced to the NRL.
“We won’t have them commercially available until toward the end of next season. We will have them available for research next season,” he said.
“I have introduced the concept to Paul Bloomfield, the NRL chief medical officer. We want to present this to the full medical advisory panel of the NRL. Doctors need to understand how this works to their advantage.
“Fans understand concussion, they know the damage it can do. They don’t want players being sent back out there to sustain more damage. That’s in the player’s best interests. We just want the players to be safe. Any test where a player can influence the outcome isn’t a good test.”
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/s...s/news-story/270462fcbfd6873cd8df599a60102d54
I hope this machine pans out. It should stop a lot of the rorting that is going on, mostly the unofficial interchange. Is it worth faking an injury for a two minute rest?
- Jan 25, 2014
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So the decision still goes back to the club doctor whom is under immense pressure from the coach to get the player back out there...
This is going to stop very little the longer it remains in the hands of the club doctor.
- Jan 25, 2013
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I assume the data won't be for the doctor's eyes only. If it's found a player was sent back on when the Concussionometerer indicated the player was concussed, there'd be questions asked.
- Mar 5, 2008
- 55,057
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Shit names man.
